Under the sun

Tuesday, March 28, 2006

Arthamatra (H)indhu Madham - I

Dedicated to Viji (wink!)
Disclaimers:
  • This is not a treatise on religion in general or Hinduism in particular, nor am i well read in the Hindu philosophies and vedic texts
  • This is just another rant
  • Whether i am a theist or an atheist or an agnostic is immaterial. And no pointers to other religions, please. They all suck just as much as this does
  • I know of sages controlling their thoughts, reading other people's past and future, and even controlling their heart beats. I also know of astrological and naadi josiyam predictions coming true and suchlike. However, in my opinion, all that is neither relevant to this topic nor would the absence of those alter the world drastically.
  • If a non-believer turns into a believer over time, it does not necessarily alter the state of his once-held-atheistic-beliefs. Rather, it may mean that he has shifted his goal posts, whatever maybe his motivations; possibly the Freudian "cathartic" guilt-eraser
There is a school of thought which says if not for religion, we would still be barbaric nomads, baying for each other's blood and living like beasts. Let us assume, for this argument's sake that this is indeed true, and also ignore the fact that humankind still is a barbaric species. We have no way of verifying the truth of this claim [or the possible counter-claim that the world would have been a better place without religion]. To take William James' pragmatic approach would require us not to indulge in these hypotheses but to instead reflect on current realities.
Do the believers know what the real purpose of Hinduism is? If they do how many of them have acheived that goal? How and when do they know that they have acheived it? Is there any goal at all, or like our circus clown L.K Advani often proclaims, is Hinduism "a way of life"? Does any of them practice what they read or chant? Do the teachings operate in their everyday functioning?
My Project Lead recently suffered the colossal misfortune of his mother's death. He took leave for 13 days and came back one Monday, looking lost and shaken, needless to say. He is a very sincere, kind-hearted and hard working individual. That day, sometime during lunch time, when we were discussing where we could go for lunch, he replied to someone's question that he had restrictions in sleeping, shaving and eating for 'n' number of days [not sure how many]. He then remarked, "I'd better watch what i eat for these 'n' days". What the hell was that? Why the hell should anyone be "instructed" on how to mourn for your departed loved ones? Why not maintain those restrictions till you die? Why do Hindu widows have so many restrictions?
Why is Lord Krishna showered with praises and prayers for being a playboy while Kamal Haasan, hounded for the same reason [whether the assumtion is true or not]? What about Lord Murugan? How the fuck is Jayendra Saraswathi a sanyasin and why the fuck was i told to remove my shirt in his presence [that i refused and left the place is a different issue]?
How many Hindus understand what the upanishads are about? Does the primary principle of the Gita "kadamayai sei, palanai edhirpaarkaadhe" operate in anyone's life? Well, i can't be balanced in the face of adversities. I'm a human being and not a stone, and it is my wont to get angry, elated, jealous, aroused and sad. What the hell is Krishna talking about? There is an entire chapter on Kalidasa's Kumarasambhava, devoted to the sex between Shiva and Parvati. Hindu mythology is full of sexuality. Yet, sex is taboo and abstinence is thrust upon us mortals at every possible opportunity.

Right, the great seers and sages "saw" the truth, experienced the ultimate reality. How does it affect or help you and me? If truth is already within us and can only be experienced, and not taught, why do we follow gods and godmen? Why are all the godmen who claim to have shunned materialistic pursuits obscenely rich? [Exceptions like Ramana Maharishi might be there]. How the fuck does one explain the concept of having different queues in temples, based on the money you pay? Does Thirupathi Venkatachalapathi need all those jewels, just because some perverts and criminals can masturbate their ego and purge their guilt? What would you have answered in Nasser's place when Kamal Haasan asks that question in Anbe Sivam?

The caste system has been the most divisive and destructive weapon of mass destruction the world has ever seen. Whatever the justifications were at the time of their creation, they have no place in society today. The Brahminical hegemony and superiority complex must go, just as much as the baseless anti-Brahmin sentiment prevalent in Dravidian society today.
Unless we have inter-caste marriages, the wretched system is here to say. Half measures like "Let me practise my faith and uphold my casteist identity at home" do not seem to serve any purpose. If ever there is a contest for selecting which single factor has contributed to the most massive of destructions, religion/caste would win hands down. There has never been such a grand fiasco in the recorded history of humankind. The argument that "it is the fault of the people, and not religion that all these are happening" does not convince me. What about you?

To be continued....




30 Comments:

  • Ignorance is bliss :-)

    By Blogger F e r r a r i, at Tue Mar 28, 06:13:00 PM  

  • very good blog....

    why are we hindus????????

    just b'cos of one silly reason.....

    "our parents are hindus"........

    By Blogger karthikeyan, at Tue Mar 28, 09:41:00 PM  

  • You are sure going to get a lot of advice and instructions about the philosophical nuances of "Hinduism". As I am least qualified for to attempt any exlpanation in that direction I shall jump to a few quick questions:

    Is your tirade against religion or Hinduism ?

    Because your critical points seem universally relevant. And your point of emphasis on abstinence is relevant only elsewhere.

    Are u gonna make the DK bid that "I am attacking the mores of the majority religion for maximum impact" ? You are sure going to get a lot of advice and instructions about the philosophical nuances of "Hinduism". As I am least qualified for to attempt any exlpanation in that direction I shall jump to a few quick questions:

    Is your tirade against religion or Hinduism ?

    Because your critical points seem universally relevant. And your point of emphasis on abstinence is relevant only elsewhere.

    Are u gonna make the DK bid that "I am attacking the mores of the majority religion for maximum impact" ?

    The baby & bathwater seem inseparable but stil ...

    >>Digression: Bejeweled Balaji upsets you because there are starving millions.Did I guess right ? <<

    >>Digression: Bejeweled Balaji upsets you because there are starving millions. Did I guess right ? <<

    By Anonymous msp, at Tue Mar 28, 10:44:00 PM  

  • My take on points made by you so far
    1. I would side with Kamal in the Anbe Sivam question. A seperate queue in the presence of God is donw right against the noton of an Universal God...in fact the very existence of such a practice in Hinduism goes against the notion of the religion because Hinduism is probably the most socialist of all religions.
    2. Caste system as followed today is probably the second most stupid thing today (after Bush that is), because the caste system was based on the nature of work each one does. As Jayakanthan claims if properly followed it might have developed to a classless society. It loses it meaning when iyervaal's pursue everything other than priesthood.Same applies for othe castes too.
    3.Most of the morality practised today stems from the influence of the British and mughals and are not necessarily Hindu morality. Infact Hinduism supposes no fixed morality and claims that these things change with time.

    The problem i see is not with Hindusim as in theory. Atleast not major ones.
    I think there was a time in history when the religion made sense. The rules and practices were made for a time when caste system was properly in place. In today's India what remains is the exploitative remnants and not the true caste system as it was purported.
    Same holds for other aspects of religion too.

    By Blogger Sridhar(mutRupuLLi), at Wed Mar 29, 11:04:00 AM  

  • I would agree with what Sridhar has told.If ANY religion sucks today it's not becos of what it says but becos how ppl have intrepeted it for their own convenience over a period of time.It may be the caste system or anything else.

    You ask what help did it cause if some sages understood 'THE TRUTH',I ask what help should have happened???They understood 'The truth',gave a way for everyone else to follow,if you don't want to,leave it.

    As for other things like mourning,they are not 'Principles'.There was a time when ppl felt genuine loss at the death of a close one&shunned certain luxuries.Over a period of time we have become emotionless robots who think it a shame that we can't go to a hotel the week after a death of a loved one.So we feel these are 'RESTRICTIONS'.

    Why the f*** is Jayendra Saraswati a sanyasin??

    Why the f*** is he not?

    If you have asked these questions becos JJ,the dictator had him arrested or Nakkeran&Junior Vikatan went beserk,what can I say?

    But I accept that he is not one in the strictest sense when compared to his Guru,Sri Chandrashekara Saraswati.

    More later..... :)

    By Anonymous Cinefan, at Wed Mar 29, 04:00:00 PM  

  • msp,
    1) Though my tirade would hold good for any religion [as i've mentioned at the outset], in the blogosphere, there is an elitist Brahminical cream which has a condescending attitude towards other religions. We would do well to see the crap Hinduism is into.
    2) "Bejeweled Balaji upsets you because there are starving millions"
    - No. To me, the practice of decorating Mr.Balaji with jewels just for the sake of an ego trip, or to wash away one's crimes or to evade guilt is fine as long as they don't attribute any lofty religious or spiritual connotation to it.
    Anbe Sivam: "Neenga dhaan samikke coolie kudukkara aalaache. Unga kasayellam vangikittu thappukkala mannikkara saami saamiye kidayadhu. Avar oru coolie, enna avarum coolie vangikittu dhaane vela pakkararu"

    Sridhar,
    We seem to agree on the broader issues, minor points notwithstanding

    cinefan,
    "You ask what help did it cause if some sages understood 'THE TRUTH',I ask what help should have happened???They understood 'The truth',gave a way for everyone else to follow,if you don't want to,leave it."
    Q: Since you "follow" [i assume] some godman or god, have you understood, seen or felt The Truth, if there is any such thing? Can you, as i have mentioned in the post, "follow" anything or anyone to acheive it? Its funny because we are always being told truth is in the individual, there is no self or "i" and what not? Yet, we are always told to "follow" something or someone. Its created a lucrative business for the Ravishankars, Oshos, Saibabas, not to mention the Christian messiahs and a bunch of willing "followers". Thats it.

    "As for other things like mourning,they are not 'Principles'.There was a time when ppl felt genuine loss at the death of a close one&shunned certain luxuries.Over a period of time we have become emotionless robots who think it a shame that we can't go to a hotel the week after a death of a loved one.So we feel these are 'RESTRICTIONS'."
    - Do you mean to say people no longer feel genuine loss? Who is a robot - one who acts according to his will, emotions and conscience or one who does something because some scriptures told him to do so? And about going to a hotel after a week, this is exactly what i'm trying to say. If someone loses his dear ones, its HIS grief. He feels sad, eats, does not eat, goes to a hotel [doesnt mean he is emotionless], goes into shock and so on. Or he CAN be emotionless and start partying from the third day. This can very well happen to a religious person. There is no need to introduce a dichotomy here. I guess you have totally misunderstood my point in this.


    "if you have asked these questions becos JJ,the dictator had him arrested or Nakkeran&Junior Vikatan went beserk,what can I say?"

    Wrong assumtion. I was/am vehemently against the state and the media on this issue.

    "Why the f*** is he not?"
    You gotta be kidding me!!! Define a sanyasin for me, and more importantly for you :)

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Wed Mar 29, 05:02:00 PM  

  • Bala,
    I do not follow any Godman or God.I beleive in Swami Vivekananda's theory-You become what you think(AM not quoting).So the question of have I understood 'The Truth'doesn't arise.If I want to,I will read a lot&take the path which impresses me a lot.

    Yes,God is within us,to be felt&understood.Then you ask why follow someone/something?Then how do you find out,where do you start from.If you can find an way of doing it without following someone else,gr8 but have you tried???

    As for mourning,both of us are thinking on similar lines.If at all you have grief,you will refrain from doing so many things.Then why look at it as restrictions???

    If you are saying that someone is unhappy becos his mom died&he wants to wash it away from partying hard,what to say.So be it but how many are going to understand that.They will say "what kind of a man he is,his mom dies&he parties away".

    if you say Fuck society,then it's a diff issue.

    As for Jayendra Saraswati,read my last line again.He is not a Sanyasin in the strictest sense.I for one do not have the respect that I had for his guru.But what the TN govt&the media did to him was unpardonable.

    He has not renounced the luxuries of life,Infact most God-men today thrive on luxuries.But i give him credit for reaching out to that sections of society who are not Brahmins.

    As for Sri Sri Ravi Shankar,is it wrong to build a Ashram,school of though singlehandedly.He has been working for the last 15 to 20 years,it's only in the last 5 years that he is in the lime light.Do you have any idea as to the kind of work he has done in the rural areas.Don't judge him becos of the media attention.

    Just because he is an ascetic doesn't mean he should shun publicity,should walk all over India¬ fly :)

    By Anonymous Cinefan, at Wed Mar 29, 05:37:00 PM  

  • "If at all you have grief,you will refrain from doing so many things"
    - If you will refrain from so many things, why should someone tell you what you should refrain from? You'll do it on your own anyway. Whether you do or don't, it should come from your heart.

    "But what the TN govt&the media did to him was unpardonable."
    - Totally agree

    Ravishankar might have done some good/great contributions, which are commendable. The point is that the concept of godman is problematic. These gurus are no different from people who write these self-help management books.

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Wed Mar 29, 07:32:00 PM  

  • //To me, the practice of decorating Mr.Balaji with jewels just for the sake of an ego trip, or to wash away one's crimes or to evade guilt is fine as long as they don't attribute any lofty religious or spiritual connotation//
    Didn't get this at all. Are you saying it is unacceptable to treat religion as a cleanser. i.e. are you saying God is too holy for that :-)

    By Anonymous msp, at Thu Mar 30, 12:31:00 AM  

  • msp,
    I reiterate
    Anbe Sivam: "Neenga dhaan samikke coolie kudukkara aalaache. Unga kasayellam vangikittu thappukkala mannikkara saami saamiye kidayadhu. Avar oru coolie, enna avarum coolie vangikittu dhaane vela pakkararu

    Do you mean to say you will cheat, exploit and murder; when you adorn Balaji with kilos of jewels, it is religious cleansing? :)

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Thu Mar 30, 02:49:00 PM  

  • If someone believes that he has bought "prayachitham" by adorning the Lord with jewels, the idea is pretty dumb.

    But does it make a case for hating the practice of bejewling Balaji (I am beginning to like this alliterative phrase).

    You are saying that the practice in particular and (if I guess right) religiousness in general is just Man's
    attempt at doing away with his guilt without trying to become better.IMO that's a narrow interpretation.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thu Mar 30, 07:16:00 PM  

  • i think the main point of Bala's post is why is the average temple-goer(or X-goer or Y-goer) such a rabid hate-infested scumbag who comes back with a heavier baggage of hate and why his religion cant help him become a better human being.

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Thu Mar 30, 08:57:00 PM  

  • A_A, the post immediately below ur Anbe Sivam re-quote is mine. Missed my name.

    By Anonymous msp, at Fri Mar 31, 01:44:00 AM  

  • Isn't Prabhu George's post 'SPAM',remove it Bala,ppl like these are only going to end up spoiling the 'Comments'section of this post.

    Becos someone is going to lose his cool&reply back in a equally sick or more perverted way.

    By Anonymous Cinefan, at Fri Mar 31, 10:15:00 AM  

  • Cinefan,
    Neenga sonnadhu sari dhaan. Suddenly we have anon(s) shitting all over the blog :)

    * and msp,
    Long story short:
    a) Religion might in theory be a necessary thing, a good thing
    b) In reality, the question is how has it changed our lives?
    c) How does religion operate [if it does] in the lives of the people supposedly following it?
    d) What is wrong in questioning dogma?
    P.S: Why Hinduism? Well, maybe personal bias, religion with way too many contradictions and suchlike.....

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Fri Mar 31, 02:52:00 PM  

  • Bala,
    Frankly there is no such thing as'Hinduism',it's just that a lot of people told the same thing in diff ways&a layman feels it's a religion full of contradictions.If it was a "religion",we wouldn't have so many differences within us.

    A large section of ppl following the same idea thro' different paths had to be given a name&the term 'Hinduism'was coined.

    It's a boon&bane.

    Boon:Becos it encourages you to question,that's what you are doing now right?

    Bane:it's diff to unite ppl,which is what the RSS is trying to do for a long time now&have not succeeded.

    IMO,it's impossible to unite ppl under this religion the way it is possible for Islam&Christianity.

    By Anonymous Cinefan, at Fri Mar 31, 06:27:00 PM  

  • bala

    i missesd to read this one.

    ""ithanai kodi per relgiion la irundha enna payan indha naadu urupatirukka?"

    nyayamaana kelvi.

    religion the way its followed here is all conditioning. inherited and a set of rituals to be done at certain times.

    whenever someone says 'ennai follow pannu, adhu dhan unakku nalladhu' there is politics.
    there is nothing spiritual abt it.

    the main purpose attributed to religion is that it makes u a better persn. but ironically religion is more like a heroine. it just feeds on man's insecurity and looks like making him feel cosy and comfortable but gradually makes him lose any sense of self. and consequently ppl r ready to go down to the level of animals and kill each other in the name of the very religion.

    i think religion and Gods are concepts that when someone says this is the WAY, follow me, at theat precise moment the concept gets distorted and loses its value.

    i always had this thing abt prayer.. oruthanai kai yendha vecha approm avar enna kadavul?
    is he not equivalent to one vatti kadai kaarar?
    to me Godliness is a concept and not an entity.

    regarding hindusim, idhile evalavo kurai irukku. i totally agree to the contradicitions given here.
    but this is one religion, however faulty it may be, which lets u the freedom to speak against itself.

    chomsky evlo dhaan america vai kevalama thittinlaaum "avar nallavar' nu america vechirukara madhiri.

    mitha religions la idhai pannina the ppl will be ostracised, killed, what not.

    To that extent i am happy that my dad was a hindu and by default i am also one.

    to the extent that there r forces to convert me, i would rather stick into what i am born into. No regrets.

    lastly, ellam onnu dhaan. idhile atleast 'arthamatra hindu madham' nu blog aavadhu eludalaam. eludhittu dhairiyama veetuku pogalaam. mithadhile indha freedom kooda kidayaadhu IMHO.

    By Blogger Prabu Karthik, at Fri Mar 31, 10:23:00 PM  

  • Do the believers know what the real purpose of Hinduism is?

    Bala, I dont look at the whole from the religious perspective(which is completely outdated and blurred now). You have to look at it from the civilization perspective, as in where current values stand and where we are heading for. Coming to the question, currently 2 laws operation in indian society:

    1. Thou shalt save your ass(Just earn enough for yourself, your family, your community and care zilch about the rest)
    2. Thou shalt uphold the chalta hai principle(in other words, strive for maximum reward investing the minimum effort - if 80% is good enough, dont put more tha 80% into your work - this also explains bribery, passing the buck, lack of accountability and the zillion other ills plaguing our society)

    Forgot about the Gita's dictum about 'Let not the fruits of labor be thy motive', for most of us, Hinduism begins and ends at the temple doorstep and nothing to do with our professional or social attitudes.
    [Commandment #1 is contrary to Naathigam Pesum Nallavar's dictum "Naalu peru seththaa thaan naalu peru nalla irukka mudiyum :-) But what the heck, NPN is a loose-living commie and a bloody traitor to boot!! ;)]

    How the fuck is Jayendra Saraswathi a sanyasin and why the fuck was i told to remove my shirt in his presence
    Let's face it, Kanchi Mutt is a 5000 year old organization. If you dont like it, dont cross its path. Entrenched customs cant be weeded out overnight. Hinduism has always had a pecking order and egalitarian ideas dont exist(maybe in theory but never in practice). That's why it has had the maximum intra-religious squabbles/hatred than any other religion.

    sex is taboo and abstinence is thrust upon us mortals at every possible opportunity.
    Now hold on a bit and go below the surface...is it really being thrust at us?? Who are the real victims of this repression?
    IMHO, the answer is no - Indian men have always had a very
    indulgent lifestyle - pre-marital, extra-marital, abusing servant/cousin/colleague is fine. They have generally been free to mate at the frequency of rabbits(its another matter that they wont easily find a partner :-) )I think the real targets of this repression are the women - that they may be more dedicated copulation bowls for the men![apologies for the disgusting lang] Why do you think society expects the woman to put up with her philandering husband? All the hullabaloo about morality comes up only during Valentine's Day, Dandiya Raat, Holi and the like - that's coz all these events involve a certain amount of sexual freedom for the Indian woman. Where were the moral guardians all these years when sexual freedom was wildly skewed in favor of the male? We have always been a sexually-active society but with women at the receiving end.[It's just my guess that by 2026, Free Sex will rule supreme in India - on a much more rampant fashion than the West, marriages and the prudes be damned :-) ]

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Mon Apr 03, 10:10:00 AM  

  • Cine Fan,
    Can you review your statement I give him credit for reaching out to that sections of society who are not Brahmins? Reason I ask is that the reality seems so different - Indian Express stated the fisherfolk around Kalavai mentioned that Kanchi Mutt did nothing for them. They did reach out but only recently in as a defence mechanism for the conversion stuff. In fact, other than brahmins(that too a certain sect), nobody in TN cared about the arrest. Kanchi Mutt has predominantly been a "for the B's, by the B's, of the B's"[Not that it is wrong - they are entitled to be since the caste system is such a paranoia-injecting machinery and there's nothing wrong with people groups closing ranks to protect themselves] It's another matter that the Acharya often had foot-in-the-mouth disease and often rubbed non-brahmins the wrong way[calling working women as hookers, demanding a brahmin cook in jail, blaming JJ's election defeat on her 'ahankara' after enjoying her political patronage for 10 years - now this is simply pulling a wounded tiger's whiskers and expecting the jaws not to snap :-)]

    Another matter that the whole case is a joke. But the fact remains that the Kanchi Mutt due to their exclusivist culture found little sympathy in the state. If it had wanted to, the BJP could have raised such an massive uproar in the state and forced the govt on the backfoot. But it is firstly a political party and only secondly a hindutva champion - jumping into battle over a case could jeopardise their political future in an anti-jingoist state like TN and they decided to keep away.

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Mon Apr 03, 10:40:00 AM  

  • Agree with most of PK's points which are quite valid. Adding to that, there are millions of Hindus for whom Hinduism only gave them the worst human rights abuses for centuries and inspite of that, they wouldnt dream of embracing any other...now these are the true heroes of the faith!

    Of course, the rightist self-appointed guardians of the faith will contest this. And the cycle of hatred will continue forever :-)

    Which is why the concept of HINDU UNITY is a myth, a hoax and an Utopian idea.

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Mon Apr 03, 10:50:00 AM  

  • *,
    A news report on some fisherman telling that thre kanchi Mutt did not do anything cannot be a generalization. I maintain that jayendra Saraswati made an attempt to reach out to those sections of soceity which were not Brahmins.

    I agree that his dabbling in politics was the main reason for his plight.Ideally he should have kept away from the 'cesspool'.But he was telling facts by saying "JJ lost because of her 'ahanakara'".She is an egoist right??A shame that TN just alternates between the DMK&ADMK.

    Women being abused-does it not happen irrespective of her religion,caste?Why pick on 'Hinduism'for this?

    In fact women had more freedom(free sex,respect) before the Muslim invasion.A few restrictions were imposed as a defence mechanism from the invaders,'Man'found that it gave him power to control her&the restrictions went up.

    As for human rights abuses,again it's got nothing to do with religion.The caste sysytem got misintrepeted in wrong hands(power corrupts everyone incl the Brahmins).

    Differences exist even in Islam&Christianity.

    Infact so many dalits got converted to other faiths,did it do them any good?it's an issue which needs to be tackled in adiff way instead og just blaming'religion'for it.

    By Anonymous Cinefan, at Mon Apr 03, 11:23:00 AM  

  • PK,
    Agree on many of your points.
    As for the differences between religions in the way blasphemy is treated, yeah you could say i'm lucky i'm not living in a Taliban hotbed :)

    *,

    "Commandment #1 is contrary to Naathigam Pesum Nallavar's dictum "Naalu peru seththaa thaan naalu peru nalla irukka mudiyum :-)"

    That's actually "naalu peru nalla irukkanumna edhuvume thappu illa"

    "But what the heck, NPN is a loose-living commie and a bloody traitor to boot!! ;)"
    Ahem.... Sarcastic shot-at 'ourselves'-a illa vera edhavadha???

    About sex, abstinence and all, yes, women have been at the receiving end, like in all other religions. My point was in the context of Lord Krishna's prowess in being a casanova and having songs composed for it, while Dr.Kamal saar is "chi-chi"-ed by our maami or maama, for deeds he might or might not have committed :)

    "It's just my guess that by 2026, Free Sex will rule supreme in India - on a much more rampant fashion than the West, marriages and the prudes be damned :-)"
    No way! PMK/DPI et all will consolidate their limited but strong holds. India, without caste politics, and moral policing??? I don't see it :)


    Regarding the Kaanchi "periyava":
    Whether JS "reached out" or not, it was nothing more than a 'token' gesture. Its a joke, nothing more.



    If i were a Dalit not being allowed to get into temples, not being allowed to draw water from "their" wells, being forced to drink urine and eat shit, BY THE PEOPLE WHO BELONG TO THE SAME RELIGION I AM SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW, i would say Fuck Hinduism and convert. Anything, going forward would be better than what i went through. Period.


    "it's an issue which needs to be tackled in adiff way instead og just blaming'religion'for it."
    Like?

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Mon Apr 03, 05:34:00 PM  

  • hi

    I guess it has become more or less a style statement for everyone to bash hinduism( in the name of bashing religions).

    I would like to clarify on certain points:

    First, any religion is based on a set of rules that is defined for a good living... The problem is it is time variant i.e some rules may not be applicable right now.. for e.g sati and male domination

    There are rules that have to be condemned like discrimination based on ppl etc.. However note that every religion tries to say only good things:

    satyam vada dharmam chara- I dont find any problem with this..

    All the great sanskrit poets like bhaasa, bhootha, panini and kalidasa have only talked abt the good things.. can one person tell me where they have talked abt discrimination or any other social evil..


    Secondly, no one asked you to go to sankarachryar in the first place, if you are interested you can go else no one forces you to follow.. That is the highlight of hinduism: no one forces you to go to a temple, however if you go dont wear slippers and go... Logic is simple aint it..



    The problem is we dont get the right picture of secularism: thje educated ppl think that secularism is criticising the minority.. also you will find a lot of ppl in the hindu community criticising cos they want to project that they are neutral and totaly unbiased..

    my only advice is that.. use your discretion and read the vedas. you might not like it.. I personally dont like a few things but there is nothing that you will hate it..

    thanks

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Tue Apr 04, 08:21:00 AM  

  • Anon,
    "I guess it has become more or less a style statement for everyone to bash hinduism( in the name of bashing religions)."
    Not me...

    "The problem is it is time variant i.e some rules may not be applicable right now.. for e.g sati and male domination"
    Duh..... Pray tell me when were Sati and male domination EVER applicable? And you say all religions have only good things to say?

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    "satyam vada dharmam chara- I dont find any problem with this.."
    I don't know what it means

    "All the great sanskrit poets like bhaasa, bhootha, panini and kalidasa have only talked abt the good things.. can one person tell me where they have talked abt discrimination or any other social evil.."
    I never said the great Sanskrit poets talked about discrimination or social evil. Fail to see the point, though

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Tue Apr 04, 05:18:00 PM  

  • A news report on some fisherman telling that thre kanchi Mutt did not do anything cannot be a generalization. I maintain that jayendra Saraswati made an attempt to reach out to those sections of soceity which were not Brahmins.

    Cine Fan, in order not to make an empty claim, I tried hard to provide one evidence(there may be 1000 more supporting/opposing, I dont care). And you call that a generalization!! Now, my friend, how many specifics have you quoted? Zero! :-) So in what way is your stand stronger than mine??

    And you really think the rest of TN cares a hoot about someone who demands a brahmin cook? Thanks for seeing hidden nice qualities in us :-) Even TTD(Tirupati) and BJP didnt care much! And what was JS the "spiritual" advisor since 1994 doing when JJ conducted Sudhagaran's wedding, sacked 1 lakh people in 2003? Face it, in JJ's eyes, Natarajan = JS = Thirunavukkarasu, whoever crosses the line gets the whip.

    BTW, as I made it clear, I view this from the civilization point of view, not from the religious perspective. I think religion has only one place - within 4 walls - and it becomes crapshit when it goes beyond. I am not all interested how the arrest/release of a 70 year old matters to a country. You are neither a defence lawyer nor am I Tulsi :-) So let's stop it here. Good day!

    [PS: How come caste-baste parties are bad but religion based parties are good? :-)]

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Thu Apr 06, 07:57:00 PM  

  • "But what the heck, NPN is a loose-living commie and a bloody traitor to boot!! ;)"
    Ahem.... Sarcastic shot-at 'ourselves'-a illa vera edhavadha???


    Bala! I am NOT a communist :-) Firstly, my understanding of Macroeconomics is bad, so my understanding of capitalism/communism applied to India is zero. I would love to read comprehensive papers on economic models of communism as applied to the Indian market.(Isn't it disappointing that we regularly send scholars to the London School of Economics but the majority of us science/engg folk know zilch about the subject? :( ]

    My support/dislike for communism will be based on these principles and not based on the color 'red'(which is how a bull might decide).

    No way! PMK/DPI et all will consolidate their limited but strong holds. India, without caste politics, and moral policing??? I don't see it :)

    naah, these little folks like DPI/PMK/Bajrang Dal will raise a shout only if there is a sizeable segment in the middle ground. In 20 years, rampant westernization will erode this segment totally. US was quite prude in the 40s and see how the 60s Hippie generation changed the landscape. Change has a wilder(not 'wider', no typo here) scale in India. 30 yrs back, girls didnt even complete school.

    Just my guess that 20 yrs, Shiv Sainiks will wear shorts and smooch :-)

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Thu Apr 06, 08:14:00 PM  

  • *,
    "[PS: How come caste-baste parties are bad but religion based parties are good? :-)]"
    - Nethi Adi!

    "Bala! I am NOT a communist :-) "
    - Netiher am i nor did i say you were one :)

    ""But what the heck, NPN is a loose-living commie and a bloody traitor to boot!! ;)"
    [b]Ahem.... Sarcastic shot-at 'ourselves'-a illa vera edhavadha???"[/b]


    You have to excuse my stupidity and decode the sentence for me :(
    Enna, Aandavar sammandha patta vishayam/karuthu aache!

    By Blogger Bala (Karthik), at Fri Apr 07, 04:55:00 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Sun Apr 09, 12:58:00 AM  

  • "But what the heck, NPN is a loose-living commie and a bloody traitor to boot!!"

    The stupidity is mine as I interpreted your 'ourselves' to stand for 'communists' instead of 'Kamal fans'. My statement was taking at dig at those who blindly ignore the message for the messenger. Pavlov would have very happy to choose these if-you-agree-with-me-I-touch-your-feet-if-you-disagree-I-break-your-head 'intellectuals' for his behavioral experiments!

    BTW, I dislike your reference to KH as 'Aandavar'. KH is a not a self-aggrandizing scoundrel who likes titles like 'Sri Mega-Sri Ultra-Sri', His Holiness, etc before his name. In a recent interview, the last question was "whats your message for your fans?" and his answer was "Focus on the people who provide essential services and forget the larger-than-life film industry icons..". Down-to-earth guy who lets his deeds speak for himself :)

    By Blogger The Talkative Man, at Sun Apr 09, 01:05:00 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Viji, at Tue Apr 11, 06:15:00 PM  

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